Featuring Matt Anderson, Daniel Butcher, and Koby Radcliffe
Standard Podcast
April 17, 2024
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Very entertaining, guys! Special extra-canonical kudos to Matt for mentioning the pseudapigrapha (sp?) and Koby, bringin’ the Jubilees 5! (Matt, you are right that the Apocrypha are not doctrinally authoritative for most Protestants; however, even major Protestant reformers like Luther and Calvin allowed that they could be read for historical and moral edification.)
My honest opinion is that Christians probably shouldn’t spend too much time and energy speculating over something that only gets two canonical mentions in Scripture. “Wide road issue,” as Daniel rightly says. Still, it was a fun discussion! I am a little surprised you didn’t focus more on the “men of great renown,” the heroes and warriors of v. 4b – apparently there are a lot of rousing adventure stories left out of Genesis!
Some translations do render Job 2.1 as “angels,” but the Hebrew text is “b’ney ha-Elohim.” which is literally “sons of God.” The Hebrew word for “angel” – the primary meaning of which (as in biblical Greek) is “messenger,” whether human or supernatural – is “malach.” (As in Malachi, “my messenger.”) My opinion is that “angels,” then, is too much of a “harmonizing” translation. Just my two quatloos.
“Many Waters” is the fourth book in L’Engle’s Time Quartet. (Not that I have read it, either, but it was published in 1986, several years after the other three.)
(PS to Daniel – Maybe these giant Nephilim were actually Barsoomians! You saw how big those Tharks are! Actually, I think you are on to something with the “really tall people” explanation. The earliest mss of 1 Samuel indicate that Goliath was six rather than nine feet tall – still very tall for the biblical world, and evidence that, then as now, sometimes the tales grow in the telling!)
not this woman.
Mike, I searched and searched that scripture. And when I say searched I mean read it like 3 times and never saw the word “metal.” If “metal” had occurred in the scripture I would have been convinced of the green alien theory.
For me, I have to separate things.
1: What’s important as a Christian
2: What’s not
So we all agree that Nephilim fall into category 2.
From here, it’s all just conjecture.
So to begin my conjecture, I’d like like to say how remarkable humans are. We truly are amazing from a world viewpoint, as creatures on this planet.
From there, I’d like to point out that from the context, it sounds like at the time people were pretty well aware of what Nephilim were, as there wasn’t much of an explanation needed. Additionally they were rather exceptional, which seem to be on an individual basis, rather than as a nation, as they weren’t from Nephtown or Nephtonia.
We can also assume they were blessed by God at some point or otherwise favored.
So, it has long been my conjecture that the Nephilim were not the same as normal men and were a people set apart by God at one time, blessed with great size. I personally feel that for their size to characterize them as significant, it was more than 6 and a half feet. Even if people averaged 5 feet tall, warriors of any nation were much taller due largely to better nutrition. I have Japanese ancestors who were Samurai and were very tall. About 6 feet tall and were considered very imposing, but even pre-European Japan, were not considered giants.
So, without rambling on, I think the Nephilim were a people distinct from men (though not entirely dissimilar) who once were found among the nations at that time and previous. I think they were blessed by God in at least great size (probably 7+ feet to be so remarkable that it identified them), and may have had mandates other than what men did at the time. Whatever the case, they fell out of favor and lost their blessing.
And if I am permitted a flight of fancy, beings such as Nephilim would likely have been prized at combatants, being richly paid by nations to fight for their cause. And if that was the case, a good reason why they died out.
On a side flight of fancy, has anyone ever thought about what the world may have been like before Christ chained the demons?
I heard it said a few times in this episode that Goliath was not a Nephilim. Is there something in scripture that is being referenced by this statement? I’m just wondering as in my study of 1 Samuel I’ve never come across anything that talked about Goliath’s ancestry. Thanks, guys.